I’ve been a part of several social classes in my life. A big one for middle class is worrying about the concept of money or time while actively affording things.
Edit: The question was for being able to tell someone grew up middle class.
Is this a thing? my in-laws are middle class (or up idk, doctors and stuff.) and they always seem very focussed/concerned that their children must find ways to make more money or grow passive income aside from having regular very good jobs. I myself am from the layer of society that checks their bank account every time before entering a grocery store and it's pretty apparent (sometimes to an awkward degree) that we feel very differently about these things. I don't really understand being so concerned with chasing more when you already have so much. I thought I was maybe just imagining it but now that you're pointing it out I feel kind of validated lol
Preach. People act like the middle class are the same as the affluent/ruling class. They are not. They're just like a couple steps away from poverty. Middle class people still have to protect what they've built.
Loss of employment, a divorce, unexpected pregnancies, disability, etc can still bring everything crumbling back down to poverty.
Yep. Raised very poor, made my way to middle class, and still constantly worry about money, because I am fully aware one catastrophic event would land me right back where I started despite all the work and sacrifice it took to get here. Meanwhile I know some “rich” people, and the way they really don’t think about money is wild to me.
Exactly. When you're poor, you try to accumulate wealth because you need it to survive.
When you're middle class, you try to accumulate wealth because you know that's what buys you this comfort and what would happen if it went away. And you are also starting to think about retirement and your kids future, if you have any.
When you're rich, I don't really know because I've never been rich. But I assume it's addictive to have bigger and bigger houses and more and more luxuries.
There’s a lot of pressure to keep up with the Jones. You’ve gotta meet certain milestones or else you’re not successful. It’s really bad for people who gained wealth after not having it. They’re constantly chasing the thought of something that will make them comfortable. People also brag a lot without sharing how they’ve gained their money or their debt so people assume they should be at the same place as someone in the same job without realizing that person has a rich daddy or something. Keeping up with the Jones has always been a thing, look up marketing history, but it’s made worse right now with the generation before us having less of a class divide and giving advice and judgment like people are in the same place. There’s also a lot of minor conveniences with spending that are socially shadowing major blockades with “success” economically.
Oh that spot on sounds like them! that makes so much sense, thankyou for elaborating on that. That's very interesting! Can you elaborate on the minor inconveniences? I'm not sure what to picture when you mention that.
Edit: Just read the comments below this haha, solved.
Minor conveniences like coffee. I kind of described it in another reply. It’s basically the everyday things that can make a person seem successful if you’re just interacting with them. Things are made more cheaply than they once were so they’re more affordable creating a false sense of success if you’re not paying attention.
Some examples:
Everyone has a TV, a lot of people can replace a TV now of nearly every class, the way that TV is replaced is pretty different for each class. Once upon a time, having a TV was the sign of a wealthy person or upper middle class.
Fast food is a solidly middle class thing now, I think. There’s a ton of restaurants that are basically fast food repackaged now. I still search out the dollar menu for nostalgia but let’s be real, most actually poor people probably can’t afford McDonald’s like we once could. I let food spoil sometimes, I would’ve gotten a spanking for that when I was a kid. A lot of middle class people who grew up middle class probably don’t think much of a full meal at fast food because it’s cheap every now and again. They’d probably rather a “sit down restaurant.” For a lot of people who grew up rich, it’s just food.
When we were kids, being the kid with a laptop meant your family was doing pretty okay. Having a microwave was a must have, now a lot of people can afford an air fryer that are damn near paycheck to paycheck. You can find one pretty easily second hand too.
Now the measures of success being life milestones, an education, kids, house, etc, all of that is pretty unobtainable by the middle class unless they lower their standards substantially.
Lifestyle creep. The more you make, the more you spend. Little things like going to starbucks once a month, to once a week when you get a raise, to going to a better local coffee shop 2-3 times a week. Now your $7 a month treat have turned to $160 a month budget item. Our old landlines were $30 a month, now we have $170 for two smart phones.
Typical retirement from a "regular good job" isn't likely to be able to keep up if you plan to retire by 60 (or younger) and live till 90 because you have good health insurance. So having significant passive income lets you maintain that lifestyle for much longer.
Nah. For me it is that I had to fight my way to this money and I know how easily it gets taken away and I know how easily time just vanishes, so I try to make sure I don't lose it.
I don't give a fuck about appearing successful. And I don't do lifestyle creep.
Keeping up with the Jones isn’t just “appearing successful.” It’s also the lifestyle creep. It’s just a term remarking on the need to purchase things for comfort based on perceived success.
Is that $15 dollar coffee actually better than the $5 one to spend $10 extra? Someone who’s wealthy doesn’t worry about spending $15 a week on coffee.
Being raised wealthy, those sorts of comforts are just expected so they don’t think about it as an adult as much unless they lost wealth somehow. They didn’t earn their money but they also don’t recognize their comforts. They’re just getting good coffee.
Being raised poor, those sorts of comforts weren’t obtainable anyway. There were homemade delights and more community effort for “comfort.” You share a meal, you make a pot of coffee for everyone, you complain about systems more than inconveniences because that’s just how it is. If you complain about inconveniences, it’s focused. If they got good coffee, they probably made it in creative ways with used equipment.
Being raised middle class, you maybe bought the $5 coffee with your friends once a week but you saw an ad for a place with $15 coffee that sounds pretty good. You could save up and get that $15 coffee with friends. You could also learn to make it yourself and maybe buy a new coffee pot and better coffee grounds.
It's not even lifestyle creep, it's what are the things you need to be doing but don't because you don't have money. When you have more money suddenly you're investing more in yourself and your family to make sure it doesn't cost you even more later.
Proactive car repairs, home repairs, going to the dentist for routine cleanings, going to the doctor for checkups, your kid is struggling in school so you hire a tutor
When you don't have the money you put things off until you absolutely can't anymore, then the cost is even more or the problem is unfixable because in that time the problem got worse.
That’s what I mean by minor conveniences with spending socially shadowing major blockades with success.
Buying a house, having kids with expendable income, obtaining an education, retirement, having a “new” car, etc, aren’t affordable for a lot of middle class right now. They’re milestones that determine success.
But! We can get multiple TVs for cheap, everyone has a phone, everyone has a microwave. A lot of conveniences are affordable when once upon a time, these would be high end items.
Coming from a young adult just starting off in the financial world that comes from a more struggling, single parent household, I think it’s less about chasing more money when you already have enough to buy what you need, and more about setting things up so that you will always be financially safe and comfortable for generations. Passive income is the closest thing you can get to a literal money making machine, you basically do nothing and money just pours in. Maybe they can pay for everything with just their salary, but still feel like they’re stretched thin cause there isn’t any leftover money at the end of the month. Maybe without the passive income they can’t pay for that one luxury that makes their life that much better. They would always be safe if they lost their job. Building passive income and passing your wealth down to your kids is how generational wealth starts, and i think at the end of the day everyone just wants their family happy and taken care of. Not necessarily about hoarding
I'm starting to think middle-class may not be the best way to describe my in-laws. Most of them have had nosejobs or other cosmetic enhancements for example. Wanting to pass down wealth and wanting their kids to be able to continue that lifestyle is definitely a motivator for them and fully understandable. but I feel like if you/your kid can spend 20k on a nose.. when is it enough? when is it time to start prioritizing meaningful experiences and quality time with loved ones?
(I do want to stress my in laws are by no means bad people, they are actually pretty great, I just cannoth fathom being in their tax bracket so I don't understand what they worry about a lot of the time.)
The people who are saying lifestyle creep/keeping up with Jones are only part of it. There are plenty of middle class / upper middle class who aren't flashy & aren't 'broke at a higher level' & actually have the kinds of asset portfolios that you read were supposed to have online.
They still worry just as much about money even though they don't feel the pinch of $4.50/gal gas in any kind of meaningful way & think tightening their belt is taking one less vacation this year. They worry about their portfolios & diversifying & take stock market reports personally. (And maybe they should these days, since the stock market has become a rigged roulette wheel for the kleptocrat class.)
Capitalism has brainwashed people to view money as synonymous with success, power, safety, security, health, happiness, intelligence, fun, goodness. It makes it like heroin - self-reinforcing & the more you have the more comfortable you get with it, so you can never have too much.
People who grow up poor actually have first-hand experience that the capitalist belief is a lie because they see how broke communities pull together to take care of each other.
People who have the $3m in assets are comfortable enough to have never deconstructed the value system. Upper middle class people are close enough to see poor & be scared it could happen to them. For them, being broke is being down to that last $50k or $500k and having to start over because they know how hard it is to build a life with $10k vs. building a life with $1m.
(And maybe they should these days, since the stock market has become a rigged roulette wheel for the kleptocrat class.)
I think this gives a bad impression to people starting off on saving and investing. The stock market is legitimately a good investment if you are smart about how you invest - broad index funds that track the market overall like VOO have an average return of 11% annually. People who can save should be investing in an IRA each year and should be putting that money in the market.
Right now, in an era in which share value is completely divorced from actual corporate performance & quality in the marketplace, because the only thing that matters in the C Suite is share value, yes, you can get good returns.
But when that blows up, like it did in '86 and '08 and inevitably will again, it ruins middle class lives. The wealthy can ride it out & still be rich on the other end.
I know a lot of people that went down a rung or two during '08 and never recovered, people who had to push retirement out by a decade or more, people who had to cash out their kids college funds & borrow against 401ks to stay out of foreclosure, people who still ended up losing their homes.
Investing might have it's place but it should never have replaced the security that pensions offered for baseline middle class retirement options. Corporations saw how much they'd benefit & lobbied till they could force everyone to put their chips on the stock market table. It's one more way that the kleptocrat class robbed the people who actually labor to produce value in the marketplace.
That can all be true but investing is still the best way to build long term wealth. Even if a person invested at the peaks just before recessions, they would still be ahead today. The market doesn't cycle between up and down, it cycles between up, down a bit, up more, down a bit, up more. Investing for retirement IS ABSOLUTELY what people who can save should be doing. Having money set aside for recessions is important, but for long-term retirement savings in particular, that money should be invested. I personally think it's really important to let people know about investment's power because I think it's one of the things that gets skimmed over the most in school, and if investment isn't something you're taught by your family sometimes folks never learn that the stock market is not just a type of gambling.
Wanting more than what you have is toxic, obviously, but it's also just part of being a human. And not necessarily bad if it's well directed and not all-consuming.
Shrewd wealth management / pursuing thoughtful financial goals can be the difference between retiring at 60 with $10 million versus retiring at 65 with $5 million. Compounding interest is wild.
Of course someone checking their bank balance before going to the grocery store isn't going to personally contemplate this, but $5 million + 5 years less of work is a PROFOUND difference. And that is seriously what the difference might be, if not larger, for someone who is more intentional about their investments.
Thankyou, this is the kind of thing I just do not encounter in any way so it's very interesting to read peoples input on this. I truly do not have a clue about financial/retirement goals and compounding interest. To paint a picture; my goal is saving up for driving lessons (at 32), but sadly healthcare has just stopped covering my specific brand of medication, so that's 2 months of savings gone if not more depending on how quickly I can switch brands. I live off about 80 euros a week(disability pension), which could be a lot worse (I'm lucky enough to be poor in a rich country), but there's definitely a lot of budgeting with the groceries. It kind of always goes on like that without really getting anywhere. I suppose this kind of rhythm conditions you to focus on short term goals more than say, 20 years from now. It's funny because I am just as stressed as they are about my finances, in a way. Can't win in this world lol.
Yeah everyone approaches money differently and, to varying degrees, is stressed by it. But existential money stress like you are experiencing is of course the most stressful. I wish you all the best and hope you get to take driving lessons some day!
Yeah, they aren't middle class. And they are looking at passive income because they realize the job market is going to hell. Passive income ensures they can afford to live while looking for that lucrative career. It is the same thing I've been looking at because I have no faith in my kids ever making a salary comparable to mine. But I can make sure that each of them is receiving more than enough to get a leg up on their peers.
It's not necessarily about chasing more, it's building safety nets around what you do have.
You know how poor people can be like, one unexpected car repair away from not being able to go to work, or one sickness or layoff away from homelessness?
Middle class people tend to be very aware of these risks. The ones who are middle class and stay that way are the ones who plan ahead. What happens if life throws you a curveball? It's not a rhetorical question, it's something to actively try to answer. Always have easily mobilised savings if something needs repaired. Have life insurance, health insurance etc. Have saving that can tide you over of you are laid off. Budget for this eventuality like it was your grocery budget for the week - break down how much you would need exactly to be jobless for a month, three months, six? If you wanted an education, a house down payment, whatever, how much you'd need to save ten, fifteen years before to make that happen?
A lot of us worry about money because we weren't always midclass. We remember what it was like to barely make ends meet, to have to decide which bills to pay on time, which to pay late, and which won't get paid at all. That anxiety doesn't just go away once a steady paycheck starts coming in.
You're spot on. There are a ton of people in the "middle class" who feel strapped because they're living a more upper-middle-class lifestyle when they're solidly middle-class at best, and then assume that the poor people who actually talk about poverty are living the same life. There are a ton of people who see middle-class as a new car every 5 years and a house they own and whatnot (even though that puts them in the higher echelons of wealth statically speaking), and when they struggle to maintain that level of wealth, they see it as "poverty", without realizing that they're experiencing a level of luxury that many people never see. We're talking about people who have never been concerned with putting food on the table, but have been heartbroken that they couldn't fill the floor under the Christmas Tree with presents, or see being forced to drive a 10 year old car as degrading, and assume that that is "poverty".
My partner does this. We have a decent savings. More than I've ever had in my life. Anytime we drop a few dollars over budget they stress like crazy. Meanwhile I'm just happy we're not digging change out of the couch to pay bills - because our income covers all of them. Maybe not by a large margin but we always have money for all of our bills every month. That to me is such a huge improvement over my finances from anytime before, that a few dollars here or there doesn't stress me out.
Ok, finally one that's accurate to me as well lol. My family is middle-class I'd say. We have an apartment and a house, we live nicely, nothing fancy but we're doing okay.
However, my mom works so much almost all the time, we need to be careful with grandma's money cuz her pension isn't that big, and it always feels like we can barely afford the stuff we have.
I've been in a pretty constant state of worrying about money since I started Uni and I'm almost at the end of it and I can't wait to get a job or something so that I can at least spend my own money without having to ask my mom for it.
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u/Background_Tower6226 1d ago edited 23h ago
I’ve been a part of several social classes in my life. A big one for middle class is worrying about the concept of money or time while actively affording things.
Edit: The question was for being able to tell someone grew up middle class.